A discussion without math? How about at least a math joke.
What did one math book say to the other math book?
Answer: "Leave me alone, I have my own problems!"
There is no doubt that online education will continue to grow and have a continued impact on higher education. Online education obviously makes it easier and more convenient to attend college for some students. And the availability of online courses and programs allow many to obtain college education that perhaps would not have been able to obtain otherwise.
If we look at the job description of open faculty positions at PHCC, we will see that the ability to teach and implement online courses is preferred. I think institutions feel they have to keep up with the rise in demand of online courses. Otherwise they may lose students to other institutions.
Here are some guiding questions for discussion:
1. Online education may make education more available, but do you feel that the quality of education is sacrificed in order to have this increased availability? What are the advantages and disadvantages of online education?
2. For those that have taught both online and traditional sections of the same course, how would you compare the two experiences? Do you feel your students learned as well in the online sections?
3. “There’s nothing better than an in-person meeting.” The article discusses how businesses are realizing the importance of social interaction and how some businesses may be becoming more like campuses. What do you think about this?
4. I found the information about the research on the brain done by Lewis, Amini, and Lannon presented in the article to be interesting. How do you feel a college administrator could apply this information to help bring a positive and practical impact to a college?
5. Are there any other interesting ideas/thoughts you would like to point out or discuss from this article or about the impact of online education?
#2 and #5 - When I was hired at PHCC nearly three years ago, I was asked by the then Dean (Gayle Brooks) to make designing and offering online accounting courses a priority. They were completed over a year ago and PHCC has been offering financial accounting and managerial accounting online for the last three terms. Currently, I am the only faculty member that teaches these online courses in addition to traditional face-to-face courses. Here is what my experience has to offer:
1. The "review" of students is mixed. Some love the online courses, others dislike the online courses. 2. Those that love online courses do so primarily for the convenience. 3. Those that dislike the online courses do so because they are not self-disciplined enough to keep up with the work without the "structure" of having to go to class once or twice a week. 4. Online students have indicated that they miss the face-to-face interaction with the instructor and other students. 5. As the instructor, I personally prefer teaching the traditional face-to-face courses because I enjoy the interaction with the students. 6. Students who are not computer proficient struggle with how to "get around" online courses. 7. As the instructor, I have had to deal with more academic dishonesty issues with students in the online courses, but this is much harder to prove in the online setting!
As for learning, it is honestly hard for me to tell. My pass/fail rate is essentially the same for the online students as the traditional face-to-face students. I will say though that the students in the traditional face-to-face courses ask more questions and make more of an effort to seek help when they don't understand concepts.
1. I’ve never taken an online class, so I can’t give an informed answer as to the quality of education. As to the advantages/disadvantages, I perceive some of them to include: ADV: Allows one to get an education anytime/anywhere, the convenience factor; DISADV: Limits interaction with fellow students, instructors, potential future mentors, friends, etc., may be hard for instructors to detect cheating.
3. “There’s nothing better than an in-person meeting.” The article discusses how businesses are realizing the importance of social interaction and how some businesses may be becoming more like campuses. What do you think about this? It’s funny—my Dean and I were just discussing this yesterday regarding our office space. He feels that WE may be too “business-like” in our administrative area with all of us tucked away in various offices and cubes, communicating mostly via technology! Admittedly, we have structural and space issues being in these old facilities. However, he felt that if he had the resources, he’d love to open up the whole Dean’s suite to create an open environment where we could partake in social interaction with our colleagues/faculty/students/visitors and engage in creative processes and the free exchange of ideas without the rigid limitations of the set-up that we currently have (That's an artist for you!).
5. Are there any other interesting ideas/thoughts you would like to point out or discuss from this article or about the impact of online education? In some areas, I don’t think online education is necessarily a good idea (for example, nursing or any other field where one might be training to work directly with/on people!)
We offer a couple of online courses here at the College of The Arts for a few reasons (students need electives, we need SCH, etc.). But I can’t say I’m overly fond of the idea because it think it’s really hard help students develop an appreciation for the arts without them experiencing it personally. For example, there’s a really big difference between looking at a digital picture of a Rubens painting on a webpage somewhere and actually standing in front of a large, textured, colorful, historic, remarkable Rubens work and seeing it in person with your own eyes.
Is the limbic brain involved in teaching and learning? YES!
While I'm not a fan of online learning, I have taken a few courses (and am going to attempt to conquer Stats online next semester...academic suicide). For me, and for now, the opportunity to spend another night at home (or at the ball fields) with my kids outweighs my craving for live interaction with my instructor and peers. I would imagine these types of life circumstances make higher education more feasible (or even possible) for many.
I'll put a plug in for Darlene DeMarie, who facilitated an excellent online course my first semester in the program. She included videos, the use of Eluminate, and a face-to-face meeting (with food!). It can be done well, but probably takes even more time and effort than preparing for and managing a traditional course.
Conversely, I've taken other online courses that were terrible and even made me feel a bit robbed. They'll go unnamed...
Hybrid courses (abbreviated face time with an online component) seem to blend the advantages of both formats well. I've even taught ASL as a hybrid...it seems to scratch everyone's itch.
I appreciated the Thomas Jefferson quote, as I think that way often. As tempting as working in my pajamas may be, I'm not sure that kind of influence can be accomplished through cyber space.
Not a fan of the on-line experience. Perhaps it is my age and/or learning style but my experience as an on-line student and instructor has not been as rewarding as on-ground. With that said, however, as Jennifer points out the ability to access your educational endeavors at convenient times makes it very appealing. I do, however, think that the blended format is the best of both worlds - providing solid education and personal interaction... high tech and high touch...I can only say as a father who observes his sons take on-line classes during the summer(typically the ones that are either a lot of work during the year or that are perceived time wasters)- I am thankful for tuition remission... otherwise I would feel robbed.
I also have mixed feelings about online learning. One the one hand certainly is “convenience” – for students who are unable to get to campus, lack child care, or for whom the drive time is lengthy, being able to take a class online can be a real benefit. Some students are self-starters, able to follow the course syllabus and take charge of their own learning. On the other hand, many students view “online” as being “easier” and “time saving” when, in fact, most online courses require as much or more work than a course taken on campus, as well as at least a minimal knowledge of technology. At some point, student responsibility needs to come into the discussion. I have received “requests for refunds” for our online “Microcomputer Applications” course, an entry-level course designed to teach students how to use a variety of software applications as well as to conduct basic online research. Quite often, students state in their requests that they hadn’t realized that they would need to have basic knowledge of the computer before starting this class…to quote one student, “I didn’t even know how to turn on my computer, let alone how to “access” the internet. How did you expect me to learn in this class online?” One would wonder why the student didn’t understand that she would need some basic computer skills in order to take an online course.
When I think of courses at USF that have been most beneficial to me, I think of courses such as this one which offer us the classroom “experience” along with the online blogging component. I love this hybrid combination since it helps me to get to know my fellow students better and to read what their thoughts are. With online or hybrid courses, I like being able to read what my classmates have written; something that I would not benefit from in a face-to-face course. This interaction with one another is somehow very reassuring (Jennifer, good luck with the online Stats this Fall!) and it provides another venue for us to learn from one another.
One problem which some of us have addressed, is the issue of cheating. When tests are given in the classroom, the teacher certainly has far more control over the possibility of cheating. When a student takes a test online, there is far less “certainty” that the person taking the test is the student taking the course. I know some faculty have required students to come to campus (or go to a proctored testing site) to take tests, and this requirement reduces the chances of a student being able to cheat – feeling tempted to cheat. However, this requirement to leave home and come to a campus or other testing site can present a problem for someone who truly is homebound.
In reading the Pavela report, I thought it interesting that the concern or “fear” is that we will become like the railroad industry – forgetting what our real mission is. In fact, I think that most college and university faculty and staff are very clear on mission, and that we are concerned about keeping a solid balance of online and on campus coursework in an effort to remain viable to as many students as possible. When I foresee is that we will continue to seek new and improved methods of incorporating a variety of technology into our courses – however they are taught. Five years ago, who would have thought that we’d be “blogging” as a part of a Policy and Legal Dimensions course?
#1- I agree with Karen in that some courses should not be taught online if there is a practical/ hands-on component such as surgical procedures or learning to deliver babies. Although I believe that face-to-face human interaction is irreplaceable, I think that there are some benefits to online learning opportunities. In addition to convenience and accessibility, I think about the benefits for people like me who consider themselves “self-proclaimed” introverts and may be more reflective. Online formats such as blogs and discussion boards provide individuals with the opportunity to think deeply about a particular issue and to offer a well-thought out response while reducing the feeling of exposing oneself to embarrassment. ☺ Additionally, introverts are sometimes more likely to participate more fully by using the “security” of cyberspace to provide a more comfortable platform for sharing.
#2- I haven’t taught any courses yet, but I have taken online courses. Some have been more enjoyable than others, but the best advantage for me was that I was able to work independently and at my own pace with the opportunity to, for example, complete a 16-week course in 8 weeks or 12 weeks without ever leaving my home to attend class. However, I’m not sure that this type of learning experience contributed to my personal growth or development or gave me the opportunity to glean any new and enlightening perspectives from others. I would think that an online course would need to be strategically designed in creative ways to best emulate a face-to-face encounter because it’s simply not the same.
#3- I certainly applaud their recognition of the importance of in-person interactions. As the article mentioned, “humans are social species” and I think it is necessary for us to physically connect at some point. For example, I think Skype and the new IPhone4 are great and I can appreciate the technological advances that are attempting to help us to connect from anywhere, but nothing can replace the dynamics that take place in the presence of others. The non-verbal cues, the environment and other contextual components help us to truly understand what is being communicated. Relational characteristics are a part of what makes us human beings and although technology helps us to work more efficiently, it can never replace what the article refers to as the “intense longings for friends, communities, family and spouses, consummated by face-to-face contact.”
I think posing the question to whether one prefers online instruction or not assumes that we have a choice. Maybe at first online instruction became an offering because of convenience purposes but it has remained viable because of the money it saves institutions and most times students.
In The Chronicle, I found that from 2002-2007, enrollment in online courses in higher education grew 19.7 percent, compared with 1.5-percent growth in the overall college-student population. Isn't that incredible?! With any industry trend moving that fast, some negative residuals are bound to surface. From a law and policy perspective some of the legal issues include faculty compensation, faculty training and the student experience/value.
With some colleges making deliberate moves towards budget sustainability, and choosing online instruction as a means to do so, I can easily see challenges on the horizon. If the classes are cheaper for colleges to offer, why should students pay the same rate as in class instruction? Often they pay additional fees!
I concur with my peers on all points regarding the efficiency of online courses versus effectiveness of in-person interactions. But given my particular work, I would like to address Pavela's remarks about leadership development, which I agree with feverishly. It may stem from a bias, but I believe that for so many of our students, what they specifically learn in the classroom is not going to be the primary knowledge that leads to success in their lives. It will help them be better educated people in general who will know how to continue learning about the world and the scope of what there is to learn. But what will be more valuable is a skill set, and the development of their emotional intelligence which comes from learning to work with others. Those are invaluable lessons which I believe will set apart the most successful people - in their professional and personal lives. Creating and supporting teamwork, resolving conflict, group planning, interpersonal communication, ethics, social responsibility . . . all critical capacities and very difficult to understand in isolation. Techonology will establish new avenues for these necessary interactions, which we need to explore and utilize to their extent, but experiencing the community is a vitally important piece to higher education.
Thank you everyone for your comments. I have never taught an online or hybrid course. Every class I have taught has been in a traditional classroom setting. I share the same feelings with some of you and I have no desire to teach mathematics online. However, I do like the fact that it allows some to go to college that may otherwise couldn't. But I would like to think that those taking a class in person with an instructor gets "something extra" compared to those taking an online course.
Taking this hybrid course with a mixture of online interaction is kind of nice. I get a lot out of reading your comments and experiences.
It will be interesting to see how the impact of online education develops in the near future. It is an exciting time to be in higher education!
Jennifer E. makes a great point for traditional students, however, what about the adult learner... is the leadership development a key factor? I don't know - I just think there are too many people trying to get "A's" rather than learn and the on-line environment seems to be an easier venue to accomplish this mission...
I agree with Ken - I also think that there are too many students trying to get "A's" rather than learn! It's very frustrating.
There are many comments regarding hybrid courses and personally, I prefer those types of courses as well. Not only for teaching, but also for learning. It truly combines the best of both worlds!
I don't think the world of higher education is going to be taken over by the online forums. I know many students I advise who, after taking and failing an online course, have figured out that the online venue does not work for their learning style. Similarly, online courses may not work for a lot of professors' teaching styles.
I agree with hybrids. I took an online course that promoted interaction through Elluminate sessions. You really felt that you weren't floating out in cyberspace all alone. There was still a connection with the professor and classmates. It was a ton of work. I won't lie.
1. I find that the ideas that can be discussed online usually get a good depth of perspective from the students involved. However, I think the best circumstance for online learning is the hybrid model that we are using in this class. If the entire amount of coursework is done online, you never have the social interaction that is so important in educational growth. To be able to hear the emotion in someone’s voice in class as they are either teaching a topic of discussing one can make another think about the topic on an entirely different level.
I think Jennifer points out a very important part of the advantages of online learning. She commented on the value of her time spent with her family vs. time in the classroom. The point that we seem to be in is an age where people with fulltime lives/careers still have the desire for continued education; the online learning allows both of these to be accomplished in your own time(with a slight time frame-much more expanded than the rigid class hours.)
1. Regarding the quality of education in online formats and whether or not it has disadvantages…I would argue that the quality of education as a whole is not impacted by online learning. After taking a curriculum development class with an instructor last semester who runs the USF ECampus I learned that current research on the topic reveals that overwhelmingly students learn just as much in an online format versus a regular live format. However, I would say that the online format is not ideal for certain types of learners and certain types of topics. If someone thrives on teacher praise, they will likely lack that type of interaction online. If they learn best through collaboration and the online format is strictly lecture that could also be a problem. I just see that it truly depends upon the student and the delivery. I will say however that I have had numerous online classes in my day (2002-2010, no breaks, at least part-time), and during that time the majority of the online classes I have had the joy of experiencing were actually more demanding than live classes! I believe that this is likely due to the need to compensate for the expectation from those of older generations of teachers/learners that this format promotes slacking. I would also agree with many other postings that noted that the online format might not be ideal in areas where we want to ensure that students learn emotional intelligence, the ability to demonstrate empathy, etc. However, I do not think that this should mean that students in these areas, across the board, should not be allowed to take online classes. For example, if a student is getting masters in nursing and there are multiple advanced science and math requirements, in addition to clinical training, I do not think that they should be forced to drive to campus for courses which are not going to likely impact their clinical skills with patients or other team members.
1. I have to agreee with those of you who mentioned having mixed feelings regarding online education. I love that it provides an opportunity for those who don't have physical access or the ability to rebuild their schedule around class time to get a college education. I also believe it does a lot for those who may not feel comfortable speaking up in class and/or those who prefer to do class participation in a non-conventional way. What I don't love is the lack of interaction in person (because I truly believe that it helps to increase the "ah-ha" moments one gets) and that it misses what a classroom atmosphere does so well to promote the free exchange of ideas (think about it, when you are in the moment, you are more likely to blurt out what you truly feel than when you sit there and really contemplate about what you are going to write). With that being said, I think Jen makes a good point regarding certain concepts and how the concepts are truly learned outside of the classroom when put into practice.
3. I really do believe that there really is no better meeting than an in-person meeting (I speak of this from personal experience). As part of my volunteer roles, I have had to do a lot of conference calls and email discussions of action plans. While this allows us to get the necessary work done, it doesn't provide for an opportunity to efficiently share ideas or have productive discussion because you can't see facial expressions and/or don't have a way of really knowing whether the person is engaged in the covnersation. It's also a little annoying to have to sit there and wait for someone to speak when asking questions or to have to do the "no, no, go ahead, you go" that happens so often in conference calls. While I know that a lot of this can be remedied through video conferencing, video conferencing still doesn't provide something that an in-person meeting does - the energy that you get from having the opportunity to sit in a room and truly dive into an issue. When comparing in person meetings to video conferencing, there's definitely a different level of investment to the process and a higher level of commitment to next steps - and I sincerely believe that this is because people can feed off of each other and interact in a more natural setting.
I remember when online courses were first becoming popular. Many made predictions that online campuses and courses were the way to go. I agree that there are definite benefits and drawbacks as others have mentioned. Some courses at many institutions have moved from face-to-face environment to a 100% online environment, but I believe the trend is moving back to a hybrid environment. We just had a discussion in another class this week regarding this. There will always be classes that cannot be taught online or that are not 100% effective online. In addition, the hybrid class allows for the flexibility to control certain variables such as cheating. In a hybrid environment, learning can take place in the classroom and online, but outcome measurements such as testing can be done face to face.
Whether we like it or not, online learning is here to stay. With the increasing demands for higher education, universities and community colleges are competing alongside online colleges for student tuition dollars. (Yes, education is business.) To accommodate today's adult learners, they have to offer online classes which allow the greatest flexibility of time and (as many in this forum have argued)offer comparable learning to traditional courses.
However, back to the economics of it all, these courses are also much cheaper for departments to offer. In World Languages, a traditional Spanish course will cap at around 20-25 students but they will run an online section up to 40 or more and still assign only ONE TA to "teach" it. A PhD TA friend of mine complained when he got an online section because it was triple the students and the workload, but from the university's perspective it's not because he was told there are less "contact hours."
As a teacher, I strongly believe we can "learn" in either situation as long as the quality of what we are being asked to do and the feedback we receive is high. I'm sure we can all think of many traditional classes that were a waste of our time and vice versa.
I took my first online class ever this summer and had mixed feelings. On the one hand, I appreciated the fact that I could write and send my weekly papers to my professor while I was on a business trip in the UK and he had no idea I was traveling. But on the other hand, I felt materials supplied online were not tailored to the needs of our particular class; instead we were supplied with a list of what has been done in the class semester after semester. I also missed the chance to tap into the professor's expertise/experience through the questioning/dialogue that occurs in a "live" class. Despite these disappointments, I can say I did learn a lot through the readings and writing but in a personal investigative way by following the well-planned out sequential tasks involved in my instructor's online materials.
I'm sure I'll end up teaching online myself some day soon. I guess I wouldn't object to teaching in slippers poolside. It's hard to imagine teaching a language that way, but if medicine can be done online, darn it they'll push to include more languages too. The crazy implication in my field is this...if as an international student I can get a degree online from USF in the future, why would I pay the big bucks to physically go there?
I personally favor an in classroom learning experience as opposed to online education. Having taken online courses however at USF, I would have to say that they require a substantial committment and work ethic associated with independent learning. The online course I am currently taking has been a fairly large time committment between the weekly discussion board, online presentations,4 papers and 3 quizes. I think the academic quality associated with online courses varies based upon institution aka those schools that are known mostly for being online, for profit schools. I agree that online education meets the needs of adult learners more effectively. One of my greatest concerns with online education is academic integrity and accountability.
With regard to the advantages and disadvantages of online education, I'd have to say that i'm on the side of the house the believe that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. While I concur with my classmates on issues of convenience, availability, and access, I wonder if those benefit are entirely worth the interactions that happen in the person to person experience. I feel like it's much easier to have an independent learning experience that may go unchallenged or or unsupported though online classes that doesn't as readily occur in a classroom setting in my opinion. My experience having taken both online and traditional courses is that it takes a much more gifted instructor for ann online course to be successful an for learning to occur and with many of our faculty not trained in instruction, but more so on their area of expertise, I think this leaves far too much room for ill prepared students.
In teaching courses with online components I have found that traditional aged students were much harder to engage what seemed to be a lower level of attention to the online components. I think this maybe in part to what Benet mentioned with the level of actual work involved in online courses and the attention that is sometimes necessary. This counters some of the earlier comments about getting an easy grade versus actual learning, but I wonder if the dynamic of having both types of learning in the same course may impact learning that occurs through either medium .
I have taken online classes and I do believe that there is a difference between the two media of instruction. I am not opposed to the use of online classes, however, I do think that in person instruction is much more valuable (most often) than online education. I believe that the quality of education is really a question of the person who conveys the information. As one who graduated from a college of engineering, I can say that there are some bad instructors and some good ones both online and live campus. I contend that the instructor needs to be able to convey that curriculum effectively to the students, but I am partial to live campus instruction.
A discussion without math? How about at least a math joke.
ReplyDeleteWhat did one math book say to the other math book?
Answer: "Leave me alone, I have my own problems!"
There is no doubt that online education will continue to grow and have a continued impact on higher education. Online education obviously makes it easier and more convenient to attend college for some students. And the availability of online courses and programs allow many to obtain college education that perhaps would not have been able to obtain otherwise.
If we look at the job description of open faculty positions at PHCC, we will see that the ability to teach and implement online courses is preferred. I think institutions feel they have to keep up with the rise in demand of online courses. Otherwise they may lose students to other institutions.
Here are some guiding questions for discussion:
1. Online education may make education more available, but do you feel that the quality of education is sacrificed in order to have this increased availability? What are the advantages and disadvantages of online education?
2. For those that have taught both online and traditional sections of the same course, how would you compare the two experiences? Do you feel your students learned as well in the online sections?
3. “There’s nothing better than an in-person meeting.” The article discusses how businesses are realizing the importance of social interaction and how some businesses may be becoming more like campuses. What do you think about this?
4. I found the information about the research on the brain done by Lewis, Amini, and Lannon presented in the article to be interesting. How do you feel a college administrator could apply this information to help bring a positive and practical impact to a college?
5. Are there any other interesting ideas/thoughts you would like to point out or discuss from this article or about the impact of online education?
#2 and #5 - When I was hired at PHCC nearly three years ago, I was asked by the then Dean (Gayle Brooks) to make designing and offering online accounting courses a priority. They were completed over a year ago and PHCC has been offering financial accounting and managerial accounting online for the last three terms. Currently, I am the only faculty member that teaches these online courses in addition to traditional face-to-face courses. Here is what my experience has to offer:
ReplyDelete1. The "review" of students is mixed. Some love the online courses, others dislike the online courses.
2. Those that love online courses do so primarily for the convenience.
3. Those that dislike the online courses do so because they are not self-disciplined enough to keep up with the work without the "structure" of having to go to class once or twice a week.
4. Online students have indicated that they miss the face-to-face interaction with the instructor and other students.
5. As the instructor, I personally prefer teaching the traditional face-to-face courses because I enjoy the interaction with the students.
6. Students who are not computer proficient struggle with how to "get around" online courses.
7. As the instructor, I have had to deal with more academic dishonesty issues with students in the online courses, but this is much harder to prove in the online setting!
As for learning, it is honestly hard for me to tell. My pass/fail rate is essentially the same for the online students as the traditional face-to-face students. I will say though that the students in the traditional face-to-face courses ask more questions and make more of an effort to seek help when they don't understand concepts.
J-thanks for the joke!
ReplyDelete1. I’ve never taken an online class, so I can’t give an informed answer as to the quality of education. As to the advantages/disadvantages, I perceive some of them to include:
ADV: Allows one to get an education anytime/anywhere, the convenience factor;
DISADV: Limits interaction with fellow students, instructors, potential future mentors, friends, etc., may be hard for instructors to detect cheating.
3. “There’s nothing better than an in-person meeting.” The article discusses how businesses are realizing the importance of social interaction and how some businesses may be becoming more like campuses. What do you think about this?
It’s funny—my Dean and I were just discussing this yesterday regarding our office space. He feels that WE may be too “business-like” in our administrative area with all of us tucked away in various offices and cubes, communicating mostly via technology! Admittedly, we have structural and space issues being in these old facilities. However, he felt that if he had the resources, he’d love to open up the whole Dean’s suite to create an open environment where we could partake in social interaction with our colleagues/faculty/students/visitors and engage in creative processes and the free exchange of ideas without the rigid limitations of the set-up that we currently have (That's an artist for you!).
5. Are there any other interesting ideas/thoughts you would like to point out or discuss from this article or about the impact of online education?
In some areas, I don’t think online education is necessarily a good idea (for example, nursing or any other field where one might be training to work directly with/on people!)
We offer a couple of online courses here at the College of The Arts for a few reasons (students need electives, we need SCH, etc.). But I can’t say I’m overly fond of the idea because it think it’s really hard help students develop an appreciation for the arts without them experiencing it personally. For example, there’s a really big difference between looking at a digital picture of a Rubens painting on a webpage somewhere and actually standing in front of a large, textured, colorful, historic, remarkable Rubens work and seeing it in person with your own eyes.
Is the limbic brain involved in teaching and learning? YES!
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm not a fan of online learning, I have taken a few courses (and am going to attempt to conquer Stats online next semester...academic suicide). For me, and for now, the opportunity to spend another night at home (or at the ball fields) with my kids outweighs my craving for live interaction with my instructor and peers. I would imagine these types of life circumstances make higher education more feasible (or even possible) for many.
I'll put a plug in for Darlene DeMarie, who facilitated an excellent online course my first semester in the program. She included videos, the use of Eluminate, and a face-to-face meeting (with food!). It can be done well, but probably takes even more time and effort than preparing for and managing a traditional course.
Conversely, I've taken other online courses that were terrible and even made me feel a bit robbed. They'll go unnamed...
Hybrid courses (abbreviated face time with an online component) seem to blend the advantages of both formats well. I've even taught ASL as a hybrid...it seems to scratch everyone's itch.
I appreciated the Thomas Jefferson quote, as I think that way often. As tempting as working in my pajamas may be, I'm not sure that kind of influence can be accomplished through cyber space.
Not a fan of the on-line experience. Perhaps it is my age and/or learning style but my experience as an on-line student and instructor has not been as rewarding as on-ground. With that said, however, as Jennifer points out the ability to access your educational endeavors at convenient times makes it very appealing. I do, however, think that the blended format is the best of both worlds - providing solid education and personal interaction... high tech and high touch...I can only say as a father who observes his sons take on-line classes during the summer(typically the ones that are either a lot of work during the year or that are perceived time wasters)- I am thankful for tuition remission... otherwise I would feel robbed.
ReplyDeleteI also have mixed feelings about online learning. One the one hand certainly is “convenience” – for students who are unable to get to campus, lack child care, or for whom the drive time is lengthy, being able to take a class online can be a real benefit. Some students are self-starters, able to follow the course syllabus and take charge of their own learning. On the other hand, many students view “online” as being “easier” and “time saving” when, in fact, most online courses require as much or more work than a course taken on campus, as well as at least a minimal knowledge of technology. At some point, student responsibility needs to come into the discussion. I have received “requests for refunds” for our online “Microcomputer Applications” course, an entry-level course designed to teach students how to use a variety of software applications as well as to conduct basic online research. Quite often, students state in their requests that they hadn’t realized that they would need to have basic knowledge of the computer before starting this class…to quote one student, “I didn’t even know how to turn on my computer, let alone how to “access” the internet. How did you expect me to learn in this class online?” One would wonder why the student didn’t understand that she would need some basic computer skills in order to take an online course.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of courses at USF that have been most beneficial to me, I think of courses such as this one which offer us the classroom “experience” along with the online blogging component. I love this hybrid combination since it helps me to get to know my fellow students better and to read what their thoughts are. With online or hybrid courses, I like being able to read what my classmates have written; something that I would not benefit from in a face-to-face course. This interaction with one another is somehow very reassuring (Jennifer, good luck with the online Stats this Fall!) and it provides another venue for us to learn from one another.
One problem which some of us have addressed, is the issue of cheating. When tests are given in the classroom, the teacher certainly has far more control over the possibility of cheating. When a student takes a test online, there is far less “certainty” that the person taking the test is the student taking the course. I know some faculty have required students to come to campus (or go to a proctored testing site) to take tests, and this requirement reduces the chances of a student being able to cheat – feeling tempted to cheat. However, this requirement to leave home and come to a campus or other testing site can present a problem for someone who truly is homebound.
In reading the Pavela report, I thought it interesting that the concern or “fear” is that we will become like the railroad industry – forgetting what our real mission is. In fact, I think that most college and university faculty and staff are very clear on mission, and that we are concerned about keeping a solid balance of online and on campus coursework in an effort to remain viable to as many students as possible. When I foresee is that we will continue to seek new and improved methods of incorporating a variety of technology into our courses – however they are taught. Five years ago, who would have thought that we’d be “blogging” as a part of a Policy and Legal Dimensions course?
#1- I agree with Karen in that some courses should not be taught online if there is a practical/ hands-on component such as surgical procedures or learning to deliver babies. Although I believe that face-to-face human interaction is irreplaceable, I think that there are some benefits to online learning opportunities. In addition to convenience and accessibility, I think about the benefits for people like me who consider themselves “self-proclaimed” introverts and may be more reflective. Online formats such as blogs and discussion boards provide individuals with the opportunity to think deeply about a particular issue and to offer a well-thought out response while reducing the feeling of exposing oneself to embarrassment. ☺ Additionally, introverts are sometimes more likely to participate more fully by using the “security” of cyberspace to provide a more comfortable platform for sharing.
ReplyDelete#2- I haven’t taught any courses yet, but I have taken online courses. Some have been more enjoyable than others, but the best advantage for me was that I was able to work independently and at my own pace with the opportunity to, for example, complete a 16-week course in 8 weeks or 12 weeks without ever leaving my home to attend class. However, I’m not sure that this type of learning experience contributed to my personal growth or development or gave me the opportunity to glean any new and enlightening perspectives from others. I would think that an online course would need to be strategically designed in creative ways to best emulate a face-to-face encounter because it’s simply not the same.
#3- I certainly applaud their recognition of the importance of in-person interactions. As the article mentioned, “humans are social species” and I think it is necessary for us to physically connect at some point. For example, I think Skype and the new IPhone4 are great and I can appreciate the technological advances that are attempting to help us to connect from anywhere, but nothing can replace the dynamics that take place in the presence of others. The non-verbal cues, the environment and other contextual components help us to truly understand what is being communicated. Relational characteristics are a part of what makes us human beings and although technology helps us to work more efficiently, it can never replace what the article refers to as the “intense longings for friends, communities, family and spouses, consummated by face-to-face contact.”
I think posing the question to whether one prefers online instruction or not assumes that we have a choice. Maybe at first online instruction became an offering because of convenience purposes but it has remained viable because of the money it saves institutions and most times students.
ReplyDeleteIn The Chronicle, I found that from 2002-2007, enrollment in online courses in higher education grew 19.7 percent, compared with 1.5-percent growth in the overall college-student population. Isn't that incredible?! With any industry trend moving that fast, some negative residuals are bound to surface. From a law and policy perspective some of the legal issues include faculty compensation, faculty training and the student experience/value.
With some colleges making deliberate moves towards budget sustainability, and choosing online instruction as a means to do so, I can easily see challenges on the horizon. If the classes are cheaper for colleges to offer, why should students pay the same rate as in class instruction? Often they pay additional fees!
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Excellent-Inevitability-of/44251/
I concur with my peers on all points regarding the efficiency of online courses versus effectiveness of in-person interactions. But given my particular work, I would like to address Pavela's remarks about leadership development, which I agree with feverishly. It may stem from a bias, but I believe that for so many of our students, what they specifically learn in the classroom is not going to be the primary knowledge that leads to success in their lives. It will help them be better educated people in general who will know how to continue learning about the world and the scope of what there is to learn. But what will be more valuable is a skill set, and the development of their emotional intelligence which comes from learning to work with others. Those are invaluable lessons which I believe will set apart the most successful people - in their professional and personal lives. Creating and supporting teamwork, resolving conflict, group planning, interpersonal communication, ethics, social responsibility . . . all critical capacities and very difficult to understand in isolation. Techonology will establish new avenues for these necessary interactions, which we need to explore and utilize to their extent, but experiencing the community is a vitally important piece to higher education.
ReplyDeleteThank you everyone for your comments. I have never taught an online or hybrid course. Every class I have taught has been in a traditional classroom setting. I share the same feelings with some of you and I have no desire to teach mathematics online. However, I do like the fact that it allows some to go to college that may otherwise couldn't. But I would like to think that those taking a class in person with an instructor gets "something extra" compared to those taking an online course.
ReplyDeleteTaking this hybrid course with a mixture of online interaction is kind of nice. I get a lot out of reading your comments and experiences.
It will be interesting to see how the impact of online education develops in the near future. It is an exciting time to be in higher education!
Jennifer E. makes a great point for traditional students, however, what about the adult learner... is the leadership development a key factor? I don't know - I just think there are too many people trying to get "A's" rather than learn and the on-line environment seems to be an easier venue to accomplish this mission...
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ken - I also think that there are too many students trying to get "A's" rather than learn! It's very frustrating.
ReplyDeleteThere are many comments regarding hybrid courses and personally, I prefer those types of courses as well. Not only for teaching, but also for learning. It truly combines the best of both worlds!
I don't think the world of higher education is going to be taken over by the online forums. I know many students I advise who, after taking and failing an online course, have figured out that the online venue does not work for their learning style. Similarly, online courses may not work for a lot of professors' teaching styles.
ReplyDeleteI agree with hybrids. I took an online course that promoted interaction through Elluminate sessions. You really felt that you weren't floating out in cyberspace all alone. There was still a connection with the professor and classmates. It was a ton of work. I won't lie.
1. I find that the ideas that can be discussed online usually get a good depth of perspective from the students involved. However, I think the best circumstance for online learning is the hybrid model that we are using in this class. If the entire amount of coursework is done online, you never have the social interaction that is so important in educational growth. To be able to hear the emotion in someone’s voice in class as they are either teaching a topic of discussing one can make another think about the topic on an entirely different level.
ReplyDeleteI think Jennifer points out a very important part of the advantages of online learning. She commented on the value of her time spent with her family vs. time in the classroom. The point that we seem to be in is an age where people with fulltime lives/careers still have the desire for continued education; the online learning allows both of these to be accomplished in your own time(with a slight time frame-much more expanded than the rigid class hours.)
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ReplyDelete1. Regarding the quality of education in online formats and whether or not it has disadvantages…I would argue that the quality of education as a whole is not impacted by online learning. After taking a curriculum development class with an instructor last semester who runs the USF ECampus I learned that current research on the topic reveals that overwhelmingly students learn just as much in an online format versus a regular live format. However, I would say that the online format is not ideal for certain types of learners and certain types of topics. If someone thrives on teacher praise, they will likely lack that type of interaction online. If they learn best through collaboration and the online format is strictly lecture that could also be a problem. I just see that it truly depends upon the student and the delivery. I will say however that I have had numerous online classes in my day (2002-2010, no breaks, at least part-time), and during that time the majority of the online classes I have had the joy of experiencing were actually more demanding than live classes! I believe that this is likely due to the need to compensate for the expectation from those of older generations of teachers/learners that this format promotes slacking. I would also agree with many other postings that noted that the online format might not be ideal in areas where we want to ensure that students learn emotional intelligence, the ability to demonstrate empathy, etc. However, I do not think that this should mean that students in these areas, across the board, should not be allowed to take online classes. For example, if a student is getting masters in nursing and there are multiple advanced science and math requirements, in addition to clinical training, I do not think that they should be forced to drive to campus for courses which are not going to likely impact their clinical skills with patients or other team members.
ReplyDelete1. I have to agreee with those of you who mentioned having mixed feelings regarding online education. I love that it provides an opportunity for those who don't have physical access or the ability to rebuild their schedule around class time to get a college education. I also believe it does a lot for those who may not feel comfortable speaking up in class and/or those who prefer to do class participation in a non-conventional way. What I don't love is the lack of interaction in person (because I truly believe that it helps to increase the "ah-ha" moments one gets) and that it misses what a classroom atmosphere does so well to promote the free exchange of ideas (think about it, when you are in the moment, you are more likely to blurt out what you truly feel than when you sit there and really contemplate about what you are going to write). With that being said, I think Jen makes a good point regarding certain concepts and how the concepts are truly learned outside of the classroom when put into practice.
ReplyDelete3. I really do believe that there really is no better meeting than an in-person meeting (I speak of this from personal experience). As part of my volunteer roles, I have had to do a lot of conference calls and email discussions of action plans. While this allows us to get the necessary work done, it doesn't provide for an opportunity to efficiently share ideas or have productive discussion because you can't see facial expressions and/or don't have a way of really knowing whether the person is engaged in the covnersation. It's also a little annoying to have to sit there and wait for someone to speak when asking questions or to have to do the "no, no, go ahead, you go" that happens so often in conference calls. While I know that a lot of this can be remedied through video conferencing, video conferencing still doesn't provide something that an in-person meeting does - the energy that you get from having the opportunity to sit in a room and truly dive into an issue. When comparing in person meetings to video conferencing, there's definitely a different level of investment to the process and a higher level of commitment to next steps - and I sincerely believe that this is because people can feed off of each other and interact in a more natural setting.
I remember when online courses were first becoming popular. Many made predictions that online campuses and courses were the way to go. I agree that there are definite benefits and drawbacks as others have mentioned. Some courses at many institutions have moved from face-to-face environment to a 100% online environment, but I believe the trend is moving back to a hybrid environment. We just had a discussion in another class this week regarding this. There will always be classes that cannot be taught online or that are not 100% effective online. In addition, the hybrid class allows for the flexibility to control certain variables such as cheating. In a hybrid environment, learning can take place in the classroom and online, but outcome measurements such as testing can be done face to face.
ReplyDeleteWhether we like it or not, online learning is here to stay. With the increasing demands for higher education, universities and community colleges are competing alongside online colleges for student tuition dollars. (Yes, education is business.) To accommodate today's adult learners, they have to offer online classes which allow the greatest flexibility of time and (as many in this forum have argued)offer comparable learning to traditional courses.
ReplyDeleteHowever, back to the economics of it all, these courses are also much cheaper for departments to offer. In World Languages, a traditional Spanish course will cap at around 20-25 students but they will run an online section up to 40 or more and still assign only ONE TA to "teach" it. A PhD TA friend of mine complained when he got an online section because it was triple the students and the workload, but from the university's perspective it's not because he was told there are less "contact hours."
As a teacher, I strongly believe we can "learn" in either situation as long as the quality of what we are being asked to do and the feedback we receive is high. I'm sure we can all think of many traditional classes that were a waste of our time and vice versa.
I took my first online class ever this summer and had mixed feelings. On the one hand, I appreciated the fact that I could write and send my weekly papers to my professor while I was on a business trip in the UK and he had no idea I was traveling. But on the other hand, I felt materials supplied online were not tailored to the needs of our particular class; instead we were supplied with a list of what has been done in the class semester after semester. I also missed the chance to tap into the professor's expertise/experience through the questioning/dialogue that occurs in a "live" class. Despite these disappointments, I can say I did learn a lot through the readings and writing but in a personal investigative way by following the well-planned out sequential tasks involved in my instructor's online materials.
I'm sure I'll end up teaching online myself some day soon. I guess I wouldn't object to teaching in slippers poolside. It's hard to imagine teaching a language that way, but if medicine can be done online, darn it they'll push to include more languages too. The crazy implication in my field is this...if as an international student I can get a degree online from USF in the future, why would I pay the big bucks to physically go there?
-Michelle Bell-
-Michelle-
I personally favor an in classroom learning experience as opposed to online education. Having taken online courses however at USF, I would have to say that they require a substantial committment and work ethic associated with independent learning. The online course I am currently taking has been a fairly large time committment between the weekly discussion board, online presentations,4 papers and 3 quizes.
ReplyDeleteI think the academic quality associated with online courses varies based upon institution aka those schools that are known mostly for being online, for profit schools. I agree that online education meets the needs of adult learners more effectively. One of my greatest concerns with online education is academic integrity and accountability.
With regard to the advantages and disadvantages of online education, I'd have to say that i'm on the side of the house the believe that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. While I concur with my classmates on issues of convenience, availability, and access, I wonder if those benefit are entirely worth the interactions that happen in the person to person experience. I feel like it's much easier to have an independent learning experience that may go unchallenged or or unsupported though online classes that doesn't as readily occur in a classroom setting in my opinion. My experience having taken both online and traditional courses is that it takes a much more gifted instructor for ann online course to be successful an for learning to occur and with many of our faculty not trained in instruction, but more so on their area of expertise, I think this leaves far too much room for ill prepared students.
ReplyDeleteIn teaching courses with online components I have found that traditional aged students were much harder to engage what seemed to be a lower level of attention to the online components. I think this maybe in part to what Benet mentioned with the level of actual work involved in online courses and the attention that is sometimes necessary. This counters some of the earlier comments about getting an easy grade versus actual learning, but I wonder if the dynamic of having both types of learning in the same course may impact learning that occurs through either medium .
I have taken online classes and I do believe that there is a difference between the two media of instruction. I am not opposed to the use of online classes, however, I do think that in person instruction is much more valuable (most often) than online education. I believe that the quality of education is really a question of the person who conveys the information.
ReplyDeleteAs one who graduated from a college of engineering, I can say that there are some bad instructors and some good ones both online and live campus. I contend that the instructor needs to be able to convey that curriculum effectively to the students, but I am partial to live campus instruction.